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Is everything we do not good in front of a Goy really a Chilul Hashem? [closed]

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See this answer by SJR about Chilul Hashem. I am not saying he is wrong but I would like to understand something. Why is it that when we are about to do something not very good but something that every Goy would do as well we say it is a Chilul Hashem. Lets say I drop an empty crisp wrapper on the floor, and a Goy sees. Now if it would have been a Goy who did it he wouldn't have given a second glance but suddenly because it is a Yid he says, "is this what they teach you to behave like in your Jewish school?"

This is obviously so prejudiced because it is no worse then average street yokel but somehow we feel very bad. Why is this?


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    Let me tell you a Yesod. If things have been a certain way for a while, there is normally a reason behind it! - Shmuel YaacovsonJan 29  '13 at 21:44
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2 answers!

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I remember hearing in the name of a Rav in Eretz Yisroel - that though it is common for people to cross against the light in E"Y, because the Chilonim are always looking for the bad that the Frum do, one should be careful to avoid doing this as it might be a Chillul Hahshem. However if there is a non-frum person doing it in front of you then you may follow suite as you are not doing any worse than his own kind. Seems that there is room for interpretation. In my humble opinion crossing against the light might always be considered ok as opposed to leaving garbage around which is living like an animal.


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    Hi there SJR, havent seen you in ages. Been a bit quiet here lately, huh? - Yehuda HaMaccabiJan 29  '13 at 00:31
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    Unlike other countries where the "Do Not Walk" signs are merely like recommendations to look before you cross, crossing against the light in Israel is liable to get you a fine for "jaywalking". - Webbe RebbeJan 29  '13 at 14:12
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    In Israel, there is an additional factor of concern. That is that B"H there are multitudes of children around, and they may be standing right behind you. While you yourself might have navigated the crossing safely, the child right behind you who was relying on your judgement was just a second too late... - Webbe RebbeJan 29  '13 at 14:17
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    @YehudaHaMaccabi - Siyug L'chachah Shtikah - SJRJan 29  '13 at 16:31
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    @WebbeRebbe jaywalking gets you a fine in the U.S. as well - and good point sbout child behind you. - SJRJan 29  '13 at 16:32
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There are many people would not hestitate to drop empty crisp wrappers on the ground in public. They probably think, well if a non-Jew can do it, so can I.

The idea, that others also do so, therefore it makes it OK for me to also do so fallacious. This is because there can be be things that are inherently wrong to do so, yet many people still do so.

Regardles of non-Jewish sensibilities or attitudes, a Jew must always act in accordance with the Torah. As Torah Jews, we look in the Torah to find the answers to ethical questions which confront us.

I suggest that this idea also applies to the seemingly mundane question of throwing away an empty crisp wrapper on public grounds. I will explain.

I refer to the Talmud (Chagiga 5a) which interprets the verse (Koheles 12:14) that Hashem will bring a person to judgment on "ALL hidden things". Rav says that this refers to someone who kills a louse in front of his friend; who is repulsed by this action. Shmuel says that this refers to someone who spits in front of his friend; who is repulsed by this action. Rashi explains, that though the person doing the action was unaware of the significance of his action, and though the action seems trivial, nevertheless Hashem will judge him for his action, because his friend was nontheless repulsed by it.

The above gemara is quoted by the Mishneh Berura (151:24) in reference to spitting in front of another person.

The Meiri (ad loc.) comments, that the examples given in the gemara are not exclusive, rather they serve as examples of actions which are not prohibited per se. If others find repulsion in these actions, than these actions they must be refrained from. I therefore suggest, that we can infer from this gemara a Talmudic basis for not littering the streets, since some people find this action repulsive.

When a non-Jew reacts negatively to a Jew dropping a crisp wrapper, this can be due to the fact that he finds it repulsive. As such, there is a Torah source why this should not be done.

Why the non-Jew doesn't comment in the same manner to another non-Jew, may be due to antisemitism, or may be due the fact that the other non-Jew may pull a knife or a gun on him. These factors still don't make it appropriate for the Jew to do something that Torah ideas discourage.


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    In that case you are saying it would be Ossur to do it in the street even if no one was there, that is a bit extreme, we never see a Yiddishe thing is looking after the environment! - Shmuel YaacovsonJan 29  '13 at 21:39
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    I'm not saying anything on my own. I quoted the Meiri, that if others find repulsion in these actions, than these actions must be refrained from. - Webbe RebbeJan 31  '13 at 21:04
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    The Meiri is not coming from an environmental perspective, rather from the perspective of broadening the sensitivity to "Bein Adam Lechaveiro"! - Webbe RebbeJan 31  '13 at 21:06
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